Jordan Independent - referendum - Comments

Feel free to calculate the

99avenger — Wed, 05 Nov 2008 21:22:27 -0600

Feel free to calculate the increase your property taxes would have taken and cut the check to the school system. You don't need the government to do that for you. Thats the way a democracy works. Gather all the folks that feel the same way and you can all cut the checks. Better yet; lower taxes across the board, people could work less, have more free time to volunteer and show up for informational meetings. Just a thought.

I wish to clarify a few

jthorsf — Wed, 05 Nov 2008 21:01:02 -0600

I wish to clarify a few things. First of all, since this referendum was announced, there have been 6 news stories (5 in favor - 1 showing concerns), 5 columns (5 in favor) and 6 letters to the editor (2 in favor and 4 showing concerns). I think the local media bias on this referendum was blatantly obvious as the numbers show. Requests for opposing editorials were met with resistance and only one opposing article was allowed to be printed. The following week’s paper included a front page (top and bottom fold) article supporting the referendum.

You make claims about the paper not checking their facts prior to printing articles; however, you do not check your facts either. Mr. Thorsfeldt’s property taxes went from $643 per year to $1402 per year. In my calculation, that exceeds the “double” amount being referred to. I am not saying it was all due to the school bond for the high school; however, it had a significant impact.

Additionally, you attack the 144% - 149% accuracy. You are correct. It should actually be between 144% and 154%. Let’s take a look at those numbers that Superintendent Nelson provided in one of those 12 supporting articles or columns.

$20,000 home would go from $9 to $22 – this equals a 144% increase
$80,000 home would go from $35 to $89 – this equals a 154% increase
$100,000 home would go from $44 to $111 – this equals a 152% increase
$150,000 home would go from $66 to $166 – this equals a 152% increase
$200,000 home would go from $89 to $221 – this equals a 148% increase
$500,000 home would go from $222 to $554 – this equals a 150% increase
$1,000,000 home would go from $443 to $1107 – this equals a 150% increase

The math is not only accurate, but also very telling and truthful about the impact this referendum would have had on the citizens of Jordan. The editor does not need to comment when factual information is presented as it was. Where there is need for editorial commentary is when the paper publishes 11 news stories and columns and only one of them is not filled with the same old rhetoric.

Also very accurate is the 10 pages of print with 78 home foreclosures in our area. This is very telling of the financial situation the citizens are dealing with.

I agree with you that misinformed or uninformed voters can affect elections. We saw the impact of this in the elections this year for president and senators throughout the country. While some voters may have been misinformed or uninformed about the referendum, the end result was because people are in a financial crisis right now and do not have the disposable income to spend on additional funding for the school. If the voters could have voted against the city and country increases, I am sure the outcome would have been the same. We all have to live within our means and this should hold true for the school system as well.

We need to move past this referendum and work together as a community to be more responsible and more involved in our children’s education. Let’s quit looking to others to blame for inadequate education and look in the mirror. We as parents are ultimately responsible for our children and should not expect the school system to raise our children. If the teachers did not have to work so hard to keep everyone at the same level, the classrooms would be smoother. If the teachers did not have to worry about the lack of discipline of many children, the classrooms would run smoother. This is parental responsibility, not the teachers or the education system. The Jordan teachers and principals do an excellent job with the tools they have. They need more parental involvement both at home and helping at the school. The solution is not always about money!

Yep sure is terrible maybe

AwaytoCollege — Wed, 05 Nov 2008 17:49:38 -0600

Yep sure is terrible maybe we will have to lay off one of two librarians or one of the teachers has to pick up another class instead of reading the paper for a couple hours "patrolling" the hallway from renegade students.

The day Ford Motor gets two CEO's is the day I'm ready for multiples in a hurting operation like JHS.

I'm with elkes4. Too bad it

bucky — Wed, 05 Nov 2008 11:59:23 -0600

I'm with elkes4. Too bad it did not pass. But I also believe goldengopher is right on nearly every point. Even in this contentious presidential election, if the District had followed the other suggestions, I think the vote would have passed or been MUCH closer.

Raising taxes always requires a sales pitch. And it had better be accurate, in-depth and completely necessary. I hope our District learns from this failure and looks at better education of the voters for their next attempt.

In the interim, I pray that our boards and administrators make intelligent decisions about which programs are cut in order to fit within our budget.

DavidH

Too bad it did not pass...

elkes4 — Wed, 05 Nov 2008 11:21:38 -0600

Too bad it did not pass... it seems as if some education would help clear up some misunderstandings. Four more years of controversy… Yea!

You sound like a sore loser

Twinsfan14 — Wed, 05 Nov 2008 10:17:55 -0600

You sound like a sore loser to me. I thought the newspaper articles were fair and not biased towards either side.

epass has hit the nail right

fatalbert — Wed, 05 Nov 2008 09:51:21 -0600

epass has hit the nail right on the head. The JI did NOT do their job in stating both sides. Mathias can say all he wants about the editorials, and the paper supporting it and taking a stand, blah blah blah...but the facts weren't checked. And both sides weren't told in an equal manner.

You are right Katrina, my

goldengopher — Wed, 05 Nov 2008 09:48:47 -0600

You are right Katrina, my information of per pupil unit funding was ancient - my formula was from 2007. They changed it last spring.

Mathias, you have not given

epass — Wed, 05 Nov 2008 09:41:59 -0600

Mathias, you have not given the "facts" in all of your articles and have allowed some inaccurate information to be published. The article on Oct. 23rd concerning the referendum and Mr. Thorsfeldts taxes doubling after the new school was built was inaccurate. Also, the opinion piece by Mr. Thorsfeldt explaining how our taxes would increase between 144 and 149% if the referendum were to pass was also inaccurate. It’s your job to report the facts. Please check and recheck what you publish.

I talked to a lot of

goldengopher — Wed, 05 Nov 2008 09:41:19 -0600

I talked to a lot of community members about the referendum and the vast majority were against the referendum. Even parents of students were planning on voting no. I think that speaks volumes. I don't think the district did a good job of educating the need. Maybe that was lost in the transition with the new superintendent?

Now it will be interesting to see what cuts the school board will make. I would imagine they will base their cuts on recommendations from the new superintendent.

Mistakes that I saw the district make:
1) Waited to long to decide on asking for a referendum.
2) Held a referendum during a presidential election.
3) Did not do enough to inform parents of students of the need.
4) They asked the community for 10 years of operating levy - that's too long. 5 years would have sufficed.
5) Asked $425 per pupil unit - although that number is way below the state average, it still was probably $100-$125 too much.

I would assume that if all day kindergarten is cut to half-time, that more parents will enroll their kids at St. Johns, as they provide all day kindergarten and have small class sizes. I hope this happens. St. John's is the best kept secret in Jordan.

That's EXACTLY it asoller...

AwaytoCollege — Wed, 05 Nov 2008 01:44:26 -0600

That's EXACTLY it asoller... It is NOT competitive when it comes to government programs such as education. School employees are just not held to a standard. I guess we will see if anything changes since the ref. didnt get passed. I bet the same people will still be around when my kids go to high school in Jordan. Nothing will change because change is not something that comes easy. Why would employees put in the time if there is no upside nor downside. Just maintain...

Mr. Boncher, while there are

asoller — Tue, 04 Nov 2008 18:15:01 -0600

Mr. Boncher, while there are those of us who share goldengopher's opinion that some of the above-mentioned administrative positions would be beneficial in running the Jordan School District, I think it would be safe to say that the revenue generated by this levy would NOT be used to hire additional administrators at this point. I believe the School Board is collectively crossing its fingers and simply hoping that this revenue is enough to maintain the current situation and minimize future budget cuts, as well as do some necessary maintenance on the older buildings. I think it is further safe to say that this revenue would not be enough to restore cuts that have been already made. It almost certainly would not be enough to add new positions, add new programs, or enrichment programs. I understand that the board is trying to be sensitive to the current economic situation, but I, frankly, do not think they are asking for enough. I don't think the community should think this issue is going to go away if this referendum does not pass tonight. The board will continue to have to ask until the community realizes that we are responsible for giving our students the best education possible and ultimately says "yes" to additional funding. In an increasingly competitive world, I don't believe it's enough to say "adequate" is good enough for the students of Jordan. Like goldengopher, I work in another school district and witness the various opportunities available there that are not available here. I hope for the students of Jordan that our community comes to realize that we all need to participate in providing the best that we possibly can. The students of Jordan deserve to have the same kinds of academic opportunities available to them as students have in other places.

Thanks GoldenGopher! Since

Thom Boncher — Tue, 04 Nov 2008 11:50:50 -0600

Thanks GoldenGopher! Since you work for a school district, I'll look forward to talking to you tonight about the levy. See you later!

Thom, I'm a big fan of yours

goldengopher — Tue, 04 Nov 2008 10:29:35 -0600

Thom, I'm a big fan of yours and voted for you this morning. I appreciate everything you do for this town.

I will respectfully disagree with your statement. I'm not 100% sure what occurs in the Jordan school buildings on a daily basis. I am employed in the LeSueur-Henderson school district and I imagine there are a lot of similarities.

I'm only guessing, but I don't think the principals in Jordan are fully able to do the most important aspect of their job - evaluating and leading teachers. This is a question that should be brought up at school board meetings. They may do an adequate job, but definitely they can't do their job fully. Their time is spent dealing with discipline issues, parental concerns, aligning curriculum with the changing testing requirements, monitoring and adjusting the budget, etc. etc.

We have a business manager at LS-H. I don't know how Jordan can operate efficiently without one.

Does Jordan absolutely need this administration? It probably should not be a high priority, but it would make a huge impact on student acheivement, testing standards, and a more fiscally efficient district.

Thom - we'll see you at Awakenings tonight! Good-luck!

GoldenGopher, you listed

Thom Boncher — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 19:05:09 -0600

GoldenGopher, you listed four positions ". . . assistant principal, allowing more time to observe teachers in the classroom, and provide time to lead the teachers. They also could use a school business manager, a curriculum director, and a no child left behind coordinator."

Not one of those is a teaching position.

I support the school funding levy, but I sure hope the money is not going to be spent on administration. It seems to me that our Principals are fully able to lead their teachers. We have a Superintendent of Schools to deal with the business issues. Developing curricula should be part of each Principal's job, done in cooperation with teachers. The NCLB coordinator position sounds like a job that consists of making sure that appropriate paperwork is filed in a timely fashion to get NCLB funding. Presumably, the Superintendent is doing that now.

After listening to the problems associated with teacher-sharing, I don't think administrative staff is the best place to put hard-to-come-by levy funds.

Just my opinion.