I have never felt gagged or discouraged when I went to prior council meetings, however it has become more and more that the audience can make a person feel uneasy to approach any subject which you may feel a need to question. This is when you may have only wanted some clarification on a subject.

I had wanted to make a comment at a previous meeting, which was more to clarify my understanding, but knew that there were people in the wings just waiting to contradict any statement that they felt was not in their favor and this is why I fully support that some restrictions be placed, more on repetitive speaking, (not on speaking in general). There are some people, who if given an inch, will take the entire field. This is what is unfortunate and misleading when attempts have been made to allow more public input. I wonder if those people wanting more input, also voted for Al Franken. If they had, they may want to now listen to him shut down a speaker in the house…. Now that was abrupt.

It has been said that there is a freedom of speech issue, which I agree there is. Much of the lack of freedom however is taken from the person who is uncertain and given to the person who has made up their mind and made an agenda item of it, usually with help of a small support group.

This has been my experience, it may be the exception, but has certainly left a sour taste in my mouth on occasion.

Well Thom, when you are elected we won't have to worry about you talking too long, you just state the punch line without the story. In the end I agree with you. The Council heard and they chose to bury their heads in the sand and hope the problem goes away. The call to Change was made in 2008 election. When the Council had the opportunity to rethink and respond they followed the Administrative Staffs advice to deceive the public by hiding Administrative and Finance expenses ($170,000) rather than acknowledge their costs were out of line. No one is saying what they have done is illegal, it's just not right. When poor planning led to a major shortfall the Administrator & Finance Director led the Council down the wrong path. Now that they (Council) have bought in, the Staff has them right where they want them. The Council now has to defend and deceive as well. I truly believe if they could rewind they would have gone another direction (that of course is my wanting to believe in them). Small Citys like Jordan cannot afford these hugh Staff salaries now or in the future. In the private sector, management is often responsible for multiple sites. Why can't this be the case with Govenment Staff? If an Aministrator, Finance Director, or others are worth these high salaries they should handle multiple small towns so as to spread their costs as do Private sector managers. Area(regional thinking & responsibility) must enter into the Government process if we (taxpayers) are to survive and "good staff managers" have opportunities to grow. Sure, some will fall by the wayside and probably should, but the strong will be able to expand their influence and grow. Now as for You Tube, the Council wrote the script so they have to live with it. As for the effectiveness of the Mayor, he has done an outstanding job considering the other newby Council member came without a "spine" and looks and sounds exactly like the "old" members. It's been one against six since day one. So, Thom is right. Vote the rascals out! 3 seats are up in 2010.

Elkes4, the former Mayor, and a group of residents whose homes abut Lagoon Park came to a Parks and Recreation Committee meeting to talk to us about what they felt was overuse of the park if a disk golf course was installed there. I agree with them.

The current Mayor voted to accept the most recent budget proposal. I disagree with him.

Am I part of what you call, "the hopefuls troop"? Do I sound like a "Yes Man" to you?

If I can't respect you and your positions, I have no more right to be on the Council than those who are there now. If I am unwilling to listen to what you have to say, whether online or at a Council meeting, I have no more right to be on the Council than those who are there now.

I don't know if that's enough reassurance for you. I hope it is.

Thom, I actually do have respect for your independant opinions, even though it may not show all the time in my questioning. I just don't like a monopoly and that is my only concern.

I really have an issue with the DFL rule in DC. I would have the same problem with a GOP tilt as well, so don't take this the wrong way,this statement is just to give an example of things I take issue with.

I believe that the community is best served by independant thinkers, you would have to admit that at times those independant thinkers may also have times when they are not in unison with majority. I can also say that the majority is also not prone to making the correct decisions and that is when the independant thinkers must pull through and protect the majority from themselves and miss information, which always deeply roots itself in political situations.

There are many "cases" of this in history, so I will not go deep into them. It is however one of my main vote "musts".

If you give me an image with decent resolution…I can have that image dance with Elvis in the Caves in about fifteen minutes! I can show you a picture of Elephants and Llamas roaming downtown Jordan... it goes with the story on one of my blogs.

On the other side of the issue, isn’t it copyright infringement for someone to take the copy off the City's site and place it on U-Tube? Let alone doctor it in any way.

Just a question as I am not certain of Jordan's Image protection rules, if they don't have one yet, they may want to consider a revision to protect from things like the alleged, from happening in the future. I would like to have a postive image of Jordan on those sites as opposed to what has already happened.

Thom,

Did I ever once say his name? I said it was from a citizen in respect to him. He did not give me permission to say his name.

I have been advised by William O. Wrights that there seems to be some confusion over the intent of the video he produced. He reminded me that the voters of Jordan are not without blame for what is happening here. His point is well taken. I refer you to http://www.citizens4sparechange.com/ for a more detailed exposition of Mr. Wrights' thoughts on what is happening in Jordan, and why he made the video.

Youtube is great as far as it goes, but comments must be kept short (which is bad, I guess), and people using Youtube tend to get distracted by the hijinks of the Detroit City Council, and the cute baby videos.

In spite of what one may think about the name of the site, Mr. Wrights is not soliciting donations. He understands that you'll need your spare change to pay your water bill.

I am still trying to figure out when anyone's rights were taken from them. There is a public comment period on every agenda. Thom, you know this because you use it at every single meeting.

When ever I have requested to be on the agenda at a council meeting I have never been denied nor have I been stopped from talking during my agenda item.

If a person wants to get a varience or change an ordinance there is always a public hearing that is posted in advance. I have never been told I couldn't speak at a public hearing.

When a council person comes to a meeting with an idea of how they are going to vote on an item it means that they probably did their homework and reviewed their council packets before the meeting. If there is questions to asked they have the chance to do that at the meeting. If there is testimony at the meeting they will have the opportunity to listen to it. I expect the councilors to come to meetings with open minds, not empty minds.

I am not sure what the administrator and finance director have to anything to gain by moving part of their salaries to the enterprise budget except that property tax dollars won't then be used to subsidise the water and sewer department and it frees up general fund dollars. If this is not the way it is supposed to be done why haven't the auditors made them change to another way.

Ray Sandey

Elkes4, I'm sure they would be willing to let you drink Diet Pepsi, just as long as it's not decaf.

The bigger question is, where does your Diet Pepsi group meet, and will they allow a Diet Coke person to become a member?

The Diet Pepsi Group meets when ever one person sees another, Diet Coke drinkers and decaffeinated coffee drinkers are also welcome, there is no formal time, reason or place for the meeting. I only know that it is the oldest group in the world.

First Rule: wave or say hi to another person.

Second Rule: try not to talk politics

Third Rule: All conversations usually end up discussing politics in some form

Fourth Rule: Try not to let any conversation run your life or you may be banned from the group for a while.

Honestly, I listen about as often as I talk, which is most of the time. I find that many people just need a release valve. When they say their piece, I usually end up gaining insight of one form or another. I have also found that people who go off to the side and whisper, usually have bad intent or they may be uncertain of what they are talking about, those people, if not invited to engage in conversation, often draw the wrong conclusions or willingly miss lead others from being able to gain the correct insights. A kind of "If I don't get cake, no one will get cake" kind of way to fumble through life, in my opinion.

You mean they actually let another person with an opinion live in this town? What are things coming to? Elvis…. Fire up the Winnebago, its time to roll!

Sorry, too many pots calling the kettles something just to talk about something... ah, now I am guilty too.

Merry Christmas to all and to all a Good Night!

and PLEASE!.... Good will towards men....yes, women too.